Mapping Roland V-Drums to BFD Hi-Hat: Further question

Greetings once again

To recap: I’m trying to get a Roland FD-9 hi-hat controller foot pedal to communicate with BFD3. So far I can only get the pedal to trigger the same sound that the hi-hat pad is mapped to.

I’ve gotten the advice copied below from the V-Drums forum, and it seems helpful, but I don’t quite understand how to go about nailing down the functionality.

Can anyone here please advise on this, particularly with respect to the two hi-hat functionality options the advice describes? I confess I’m a bit lost on this one…

Thanks!

…the advice I received reads as follows:

There are two standards for Hi-Hat working.

Blockquote

1. The Module sends only the MIDI Open Notes (Bow 46, Edge 26) and the CC#4 Data (Pedal Position) in the MIDI Messages.
For this option, set the MIDI Note Number Border to 127 (Default)

2. The Module sends both Open Notes (Bow 46, Edge 26) and Closed Notes (Bow 42, Edge 22) an the Module cuts over from Open to Closed at the MIDI Note Number Border.
For this option set the MIDI Note Number Border to anything less than 127 (Try 90).

You have to check whether the BFD is looking for Option 1 or Option 2…

The Module produces the HH Foot Note (44) when the Pedal moves very fast from Open to Closed. This is different than a regular Open or Closed hit

Quick Update:

I can get the hi-hat pedal to work by assigning its Pedal articulation to the note being sent by the controller pedal (E2). Fortunately nothing else is mapped to E2 in the test kit I’ve been using (“90’s Indie Rock”) but that might not always be the case, and I would like to save this key map.

Problem is: I can’t find an “Export Key Map” command (as there was with BFD2). Can anyone kindly advise on how I can accomplish the export?

Thanks!

HUUUUUUGE apologies – I see that I’ve already asked the “Export Keymap” question some time ago, and it was answered.

Not finding the “Export Key Map” option in the dropdown led me astray once again, and I regret any eyeball strain my redundant question may have occasioned.

o2k

I mainly focus on Alesis Modules…

However…ALL Drum Modules are basically TMI…so setting up for Vst/Software is Universal.
Local Control ON sends to Internal Sound Generator…
Local Control OFF sends to External Sound Generator/Software etc.
Drum Default MIDI Channel = 10…GM Mode = OFF

For use as a TMI with BFD3 or External MIDI Only…GM Mode and Local Control should Always be OFF…
If you plan on sending Audio and MIDI I would check and see if the Module sends MIDI with Local Control ON…some do…others have issues with a latency between the Audio and MIDI sent simultaneously.

The difference in the TD-6 (2001-2003 and TD-6V (2003-2008) mainly is/was trigger types and perhaps a couple other Features however the MIDI Map is the same.
I show the TD-6 HH is based on GM Mapping and a Continuous/Variable CC4 (0-90) Hi Hat.
The Map doesn’t list Notes for …Ride BELL…Splash or Choke Notes.

The TD-6 and many other Roland Maps should work as a large number of Roland Modules follow the same mapping with the exception of Trigger sizes and mapping additonal Aux Inputs that are available…some modules Aux Inputs are used to add Tom 4 and Crash 2…more Expensive Modules add additional Aux Inputs after Tom 4 and Crash2/3.
For Example…the TD-50 or VAD706 map would already have Default mapping assigned for what would be Aux Triggers which you could then change the assignment(s) in the Module.

Examples of Roland Modules with the Same Mapping

The MIDI Maps for the Following Modules…ALL have the same MIDI Note assignments.

TD-07: Default MIDI Note Map

TD-17: Default MIDI Note Map

TD-25: Default MIDI Note Number Map

TD-27: Default MIDI Note Map

TD-50, TD-50X: Default MIDI Note Map

VAD706: Default MIDI Note Map

The Older Roland Modules (and probably a large number of Roland send 0-90 for CC4 Range)

The MAIN Issue I found is…the BFD3 TD-6 Key/MIDI Map…

DEFAULT MIDI HH
46 - BOW - OPEN
44 - PEDAL
42 - BOW - CLOSED
26 - EDGE - OPEN
22 - EDGE - CLOSED

46,26 are Open (BOW/EDGE)
42,22 are Closed (BOW/EDGE)

The TD-6 Map has EDGE Open and BOW Closed Note (42,26) assigned for Variable Tip
The TD-6 Map has BOW Open and EDGE Closed Note (22,46) assigned for Variable Shank.

It should be… 42,46 BOW (Variable Tip) and 22,26 EDGE (Variable Shank)

I created/attached (3) New Maps for TD-6V…and removed all the “X-tra” MIDI Notes.

1 MIDI Map is assigned to Individual Articulations…4 Zone (0-3).

46 - BOW - OPEN
44 - PEDAL
42 - BOW - CLOSED
26 - EDGE - OPEN
22 - EDGE - CLOSED

You will Not see the Variable Transitions under Hi hat.

The other 2 are setup in Variable Hi Hat Mode…

BFD3 Original HH Engine (CLOSED - 1/4 - 1/2 - 3/4 - OPEN)
4 Zone/5 Trans…(0-3)
HHTip - zone0=“13” zone1=“53” zone2=“87” zone3=“115” CC4
HHShank - zone0=“13” zone1=“53” zone2=“87” zone3=“115” CC4
and
BFD Upgraded HH Engine (CLOSED - 1/8 - 1/4 - 3/8 - 1/2 - 5/8 - 3/4 - 7/8 - OPEN)
8 Zone/9Trans (0-8)…which is for the Dark Farm (and Future) Hi Hat that includes 1/8 Articulations
HHTip - zone0=“25” zone1=“51” zone2=“76” zone3=“102” zone_1-8=“38” zone_3-8=“63” zone_5-8=“89” zone_7-8=“115” CC4
HHShank - zone0=“25” zone1=“51” zone2=“76” zone3=“102” zone_1-8=“38” zone_3-8=“63” zone_5-8=“89” zone_7-8=“115” CC4

You are going to have to adjust the Transitions as I don’t have a Roland Module/Pedal setup to adjust the 90CC to the 127CC Range which I presume is what is meant for the “MIDI Note Number Border” mentioned above.

If you are still having issues or have changed so many MIDI Note assignments and lost track trying to match up everything , I would make a Note of Trigger settings and do a Factory reset
and start Fresh.

NOTE:

“Ancient” isn’t necessarily…Bad.

The Older Modules have more MIDI Features/Control than the Newer Modules (which have been “Dumbed Down”) and could integrate Percussion (GM) Sets and numerous other Features which were removed from Newer Modules as there wasn’t much in the way of Drum Software/Vst (and No USB MIDI.) in 2001 so drummers relied entirely on the Module.

The Modules could also be set to (3) different Modes… (NORMAL MODE (Expect SEQUENCER SECTION)) (NORMAL MODE (SEQUENCER SECTION)) (General MIDI MODE).

Some of the Older Drum Modules also sent (2) MIDI Channels…CH10…and CH1 (Backing).

There is also…“Pedalthin”.

I know some of these Modules could be setup to have the HH Pedal change the pitch for triggers.

There is a DATA Reduction Setting for PedalDataThin…OFF,1,2.(pg 99)

PdlDataThin (Pedal Data Thin): OFF, 1, 2

OFF:
Data sent from the pedal is not reduced.

1:
This reduces the data sent from the pedal.
Usually, “1” is selected.

2:
This reduces the data sent from the pedal.
This setting results in even less data than when “1” is selected.

I don’t know exactly what DATA is sent…as mentioned Drum Modules are TMI and the MIDI is sent Internal or External…you could check using a MIDI Utility like MIDIOX…or the MIDI LOG Window in BFD and see if it shows up there.
There are (3) MIDI Implementation Charts,1 for each Mode that Module can be set for and according to those Pitch bend is only sent in 1 Mode and for Backing Parts.
You’ll have to do the Reasearch for All the MIDI Implementation.

I don’t know if any of these Features can be taken advantage of these days…or they were entirely forgotten since they weren’t utilized and removed as more and more Users wanted less required MIDI Knowledge and the focus became more towards “Out of the Box” use and less Tweaking.

Roland TD-6V Owners manual

BFD3 MIDI Maps - Roland TD-6V
Unzip…
Copy/Place the Folder in the BFD3 Maps Folder

Windows …C:\ProgramData>BFD Drums>BFD3>System>Maps.
macOS Library>Application Support>BFD Drums>BFD3>System>Maps
Re-Scan System Content Path

Roland.zip (121.5 KB)

1 Like

just… WOW. This is incredibly generous and helpful – thank you very, very much.

A question: I’ve made a number of small midi note tweeks to a couple of patches on the TD-6V that seemed less likely to for their audio out use to try to match them up with the mappings in BFD.

But now I’m thinking – maybe I just a factory reset on the TD-6V and let these midi maps do the work on the BFD side…

Any thoughts / comments on that approach warmly welcomed!

Thanks so much once again,
o-2k

2 Likes

You could always do a backup before a Factory Reset…(BULK DUMP - (Manual pg103))

By having The Factory Default Mapping allows you to Audition the other Modules Maps which have different settings based on Trigger/Model and size…so they will all react different.

Bulk Dump:
ALL, SETUP, ALL SONGS, ALL KITS,
KIT 01–KIT 99
ALL:
All data, including the setup (trigger, pad, and other such
settings), drum kits, and User songs are transmitted.
SETUP:
All setup data is transmitted.
ALL SONGS:
All data for User Songs 171–270 is transmitted.
ALL KITS:
All data for Drum Kits 1–99 is transmitted.
KIT 01–KIT 99:
Only the data for the selected drum kit is transmitted

TD-6V: Factory Reset

Also be aware…these Older Modules had Batteries…CR2032 like Motherboards have only not as easy to replace.

TD-6: Backup Battery

Roland still has Full Support for these Modules…

There are a Thousand Entries in the Roland Knowledge Base for the TD-6V

Blockquote You could always do a backup before a Factory Reset…(BULK DUMP - (Manual pg103)) By having The Factory Default Mapping allows you to Audition the other Modules Maps which have different settings based on Trigger/Model and size…so they will all react different.
Bulk Dump:
ALL, SETUP, ALL SONGS, ALL KITS,
KIT 01–KIT 99
ALL:
All data, including the setup (trigger, pad, and other such
settings), drum kits, and User songs are transmitted.
SETUP:
All setup data is transmitted.
ALL SONGS:
All data for User Songs 171–270 is transmitted.
ALL KITS:
All data for Drum Kits 1–99 is transmitted.
KIT 01–KIT 99:
Only the data for the selected drum kit is transmitted TD-6V: Factory Reset Also be aware…these Older Modules had Batteries…CR2032 like Motherboards have only not as easy to replace.TD-6: Backup Battery Roland still has Full Support for these Modules… There are a Thousand Entries in the Roland Knowledge Base for the TD-6V

Again, this is astonishingly helpful and generous – thank you so very much.

Can a DAW serve as a destination for the data dump? That’s the only sequencer I have.

At roughly 14 years old, I wouldn’t be surprised if the battery in my TD-6V ran out long ago which means I have “nothing to lose.”

But perhaps there’s no need to do a re-set, since the unit wouldn’t be retaining any changes I would make anyway…

Again, my deep appreciation for your time and attention. I will have one final question about setting up the V-drums next, but as it is a different issue from this hi-hat discussion, I will post it separately.

Warm regards,
0-2k

If the Battery was Bad…you wouldn’t be able to save settings now and lose them as soon as you powered the Module Off…
I have a large amount of older gear with these and usually modified the Board for a Coin Cell Holder as the Batteries are typically soldered directly on to the Board

The Sequencer is an Older reference and has more to do with the time period…No Usb MIDI.
There is a lot of Older MIDI gear still in use today and you can easily Back them up etc.

You would use a USB Audio Interface or USB to MIDI Adapter and a Utility like MIDIOX (Win)…MIDI Monitor/Sysex Librarian.for Mac …
Then select whichever one you have (from Devices etc in utility) and set the Device to send and the utility to receive Bulk Dump from the USB Audio Interface or USB/MIDI adapter…and it will be saved as a Sysex or Syx file…then to load it you would reverse the procedure set your device to receive and the utility to send.

Here is an Example…

and another example/Videos using MIDIOX…including Downloads for 22 Custom Kits (2022) for the TD-6

You would use a USB Audio Interface or USB to MIDI Adapter and a Utility like MIDIOX (Win)…MIDI Monitor/Sysex Librarian.for Mac …
Then select whichever one you have (from Devices etc in utility) and set the Device to send and the utility to receive Bulk Dump from the USB Audio Interface or USB/MIDI adapter…and it will be saved as a Sysex or Syx file…then to load it you would reverse the procedure set your device to receive and the utility to send.

Once again – hugely helpful and very much appreciated! This configuration has been rather challenging for me over the years. I’ve tried and given up several times, but it is much closer now to happening at last.

Best,
o-2k

Thank you so much for all of this extremely thoughtful (and helpful!) advice.

And I apologize for splitting these questions into 2 separate posts, I see now that that was an inconvenient thing to do so I am going to repeat this reply there also.

  • Successfully dumped settings to Sysex Librarian

  • Successfully performed Factory Reset on TD-6V
    – It’s worth bearing in mind that after 14 or 15 years, the CMOS battery in the TD-6V may not be working any more. So the unit might have already done its own “Factory Reset,” and any customization adjustments I make now or in future would not be retained on power down.

  • That keymap was “key!” Thank you very much for that.

    • Using the factory-reset TD-6V in combination with the Roland keymap generates the desired articulation responses.
  • There are still one or two minor details to resolve, mostly concerning responsiveness of the pads, but they can be addressed.

Warm regards
o-2k

Happy to Hear your up and running…and the New TD-6V maps worked…it’s a guessing game without have the actual module to test.however as mentioned…All Drum Modules have the Basics in common…

I mainly focus on Alesis Drums as mentioned in my 1st Post…and I keep an eye out for Alesis Drummers and questions.

If you have have Friends or know users with Alesis products and have questions not necessarily pertaining to BFD3 I am always available at alesisDRUMMER (15 Years).

The BFDDrums Forum has not added an E-Drum Category in the Forum as there was in previous FXpansion Forums.I am sure that will change in the future with the New Alesis Kits released this year …

Alesis Strata PRIMENITRO Max.and most recently NITRO Pro and Strata CORE are all “Powered by BFD”
Roland Modules as most have the Basic Threshold,Sensitivity settings,Roland modules have some advanced features such as Scan Time, Mask time etc.
Roland Modules also have specific settings for specific Trigger/Models so if you are using a specific Roland Trigger/Model look for those settings a snare or Cymbal doesn’t always perform the same to the same settings.
If you are using DIY Triggers or Triggers from other Brands/Manufactures it will be a matter of Trial and Error…and Patience.
The more consistent you play…eventually you’ll get to the exact settings you need for your playing style.

Happy to Hear your up and running…and the New TD-6V maps worked…it’s a guessing game without have the actual module to test

You did great, an excellent guesser!

And I see that here in Galaxy E-drum, experience is every bit as important as the playing skills. :wink:

Many thanks once again – I will now get to the refinements referenced above.

With enormous appreciation,
o-2k

I ran across a few things…including the Service manual…in regards to Battery Replacement.
The Owners Manual and Service manual state it’s Mounted to the Board and to take to Service Center.
The Roland Modules appear to use Holders for the Battery and the Majority I have seen you just remove the Bottom of the Module to Access.So it’s much simpler than let on…unlike gear I have from the same period where you De-Solder/Re-Solder or as mentioned…wire in a Coin Cell Holder for future replacement.

ROLAND TD-6V SERVICE MANUAL

TD-7 BATTERY REPLACEMENT

TD-8 BATTERY REPLACEMENT

TD-10 BATTERY REPLACEMENT

TD-20 BATTERY REPLACEMENT

I ran across a few things…including the Service manual…in regards to Battery Replacement

This is fantastic. Thank you very, very much!

o-2k

I don’t play drums. I don’t have any drumming hardware. This thread offered nothing useful to me. But I loved reading it to see the spirit of cooperation I appreciate it here at BFD! Thanks to all who contributed for sharing your knowledge and experience.