What do you want in BFD4?

I have bought sd3, the extended sound is beyond my expectation, their maintenance of the product is much better than inmusic, don’t worry about the version, I will never expect lazy developers again, even if you are in front of outsiders How hard you work, but the result is that you have let most consumers down, $280 is equivalent to buying a lesson, goodbye and no longer follow this forum.

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Sorry vertibration, you’re completely wrong on this. InMusic have furtively changed the licensing system to a subscription-style service. Not only was this change done without notification, we never agreed to any new Ts & Cs allowing this, so it is actually illegal under UK and EU law. The website to this day does not notify potential buyers of the 90-day reauthorisation requirement. That’s how honest and transparent inMusic are.

So yes, those who do not want to sign up to this system are owed a refund. It’s nothing to do with broken software, it’s the DRM/authorisation system, which was introduced by inMusic, no-one else, so it is easy to trace back as this is nothing to do with fxpansion or ROLI.

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All that said, can you name any other piece of software (or hardware even) that gives you a full refund after what, 10 years?

Usually 30 days is the best you’ll get.

Steve

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This is really intolerable, it is unfair to consumers, and we can defend our rights.

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Again missing the point. This DRM has been introduced in the last year by inMusic. The problem is with the DRM, therefore the problem is inMusic’s and is of their making - nothing to do with how old the software is, the DRM is new.

I know you love to defend inMusic, but the way they have behaved is indefensible.

They have illegally introduced a data-collecting DRM, they have illegally signed us up for a 90-day subscription-style service and the have illegally withheld my request to see that data.

All of this is directly against the UK General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and Data Protection Act 2018, but please go ahead and try and defend their position.

Because I don’t totally agree with you? :thinking:

What data are they, ‘illegally’ collecting and how have you verified this?

Wouldn’t a 90 day subscription style service require users to pay money every 90 days?
How does that work then?

I don’t think I’ve missed the point but you haven’t answered my question so I’ll ask again, can you name any other piece of software (or hardware ) that gives you a full refund after 10 years of use?
Or even 6 months of use, during which time a user might have recorded a few albums.

I’m just presenting another side of the coin, I’m not an expert on DRM but the rights and wrongs and legalities of it have been extremely complex with a lot of grey areas.

Steve

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@Steve63 I think the argument here with the DRM, is that it is technically a breach of contract and thus a refund may be warranted. I take it that inMusic’s initial user agreement for migrating BFD3 users from FXpansion, made no mention on any authorization checks that would occur in a given period? I myself can’t say for certain if this is the case or not, as I haven’t actually gone over the agreement.

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How would the DRM work without collecting data? I never agreed to inMusic collecting my data every 90-days, so that is illegal. What actual data that is I do not know as they have also not responded to my request for data access which is also illegal. Not sure how many times I have to repeat this. Read some GDPR law.

It was someone from inMusic, maybe even Drew, that described it as subsciption-style, not me. That’s where I got the phrase from. Maybe ask inMusic how that works, not me. I didn’t design this shitty system. Also it’s not subscription (where you would pay every 90 days), but subscription-style, i.e. you’ve paid the fee upfront but still have to sign in every 90 days to use your software, like a subscription.

Honestly you don’t get it. If the DRM had remained the same then no I wouldn’t expect anything as BFD is old, I’ve had it since BFD1. The DRM changed at some point when inMusic took over. From that point it became a different product, with different requirements that no-one knowingly signed up for.

You don’t think there’s been some dishonesty on their part for not even announcing the change? Or still not putting it up on their website for potential new customers to see? That it took users investigation to find this change? I’m sure you’ll put your positive spin on that somehow, I’m not interested.

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I don’t believe I’ve ever described it as such:
https://forum.bfddrums.com/search?expanded=true&q=subscription%20%40BFD_Drew

I understand the argument pretty well and I’ve heard it on this forum enough times and stated my views on it enough times, I get it and it kind of makes sense, I’m just not sure of the legality of it.
DRM law is so different to other consumer laws and rights.

Like a lot of people I rarely read the T&C’s so the answer might be buried somewhere in there.

Steve

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To be honest I didn’t think you had, I definitely read it from an inMusic rep though, possibly not even on this forum, maybe email, Twitter, Facebook, who knows these days?

Regardless, there was never a notification of the introduction of the 30-day rule as it was originally (don’t forget that juicy nugget), which indicates how underhanded inMusic are in dealing with their customers. I love how all those on the positive-spin side keep ignoring this fact.

What’s the timetable for a possible BFD4 release? The preferences question was first asked in April '21 and based on the discussion, it’s already in process. Like many, I’ve been having problems and have considered just scrapping the current install and rebuying the program (now at PlugIn Boutique for $50) and starting all over. But if a shiny, new, improved version is around the corner, I’ll bide my time. Thanks - George

My guess is that with Drew’s announcement of the BFD Player and that possibly coming first, I wouldn’t expect BFD4 until late next year. But who knows, maybe both will be released at the same time? For some, the Player may be all that they need anyways, especially those just wanting to jam on an eKit.

BFD4 is some time away. Late next year isn’t a bad shout. Probably a bit later.

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Can’t wait to put it through it’s paces :slight_smile:

yes. but not much point in rehashing “technical breaches of contract” which leaves whatever social media channels anyone cares to post on as the only realistic recourse. fwiw,

DRM is not a subscription or “subscription-style”.
DRM has nothing to do with data collection. it could but that’s not the point. there are products, even free ones. that implement a status update for any # of reasons. i.e. to confirm the # of active/registered users. no problem here with that.

the real issue imho is the treatment of existing/potential customers;

  1. the 30?/90?/random number-day de-authorization of a 4 figure investment without any warning or mention of a fundamental change in the de facto user experience.
  2. that 4 figure investment -made prior to InMusic- is fundamentally compromised if you signed up for the relaunch. (the breach of contract per the original license agreement.)
  3. and still no mention of the re-authorization -requirement- in FAQs

-any- heads up on the DRM would have been fine, and then it’s up to the user to decide if they can live with it or not. the relaunch was pretty much a bait and switch. if you did not have backups of a previously authorized installation, you’re out of luck. we were able to restore a known good configuration, but that was after two remote sessions were sabotaged by the change. so ya, I’d say a substantial amount of good will was lost here. the fact that we’re 1.5+ years into this with out a reliable release or clear statement of requirements wrt DRM is not a good sign for any future expectations, jme.

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Just on this - if people are experiencing their time-out occurring before the 90 day period, then we really need to investigate - together. Because that isn’t supposed to be the case, and if it is a widespread thing I’d love to get it analysed and figured out and fixed. Please get in touch and investigate it with myself or one of the support team.

I’m still flying the flag for proper offline mode support and either a removal of the 90-day refresh, or at the very least a grace period.

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:+1: lmk what we can do to help. feel free to pm if it’s faster/more efficient.

= an expectation by long time users

good start as it’s been somewhat problematic

notification with a chance to finish a session would be better than our experience.

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Sorry, too late. InMusic have killed any goodwill they had with me and many other people. That they introduced this with no warning of change of terms shows how they operate and what they really think of customers. The fact the website still doesn’t reflect this requirement is duplicitous. Even if this was fixed, what would be next from this shady brand killer?

Never quite got comfortable with the BFD3 GUI compared to BFD2 .Sound and functionality are excellent.It is very comprehensive but I still find myself looking all over the place at times and labelling/menus etc. is for me too small.Someone suggested a simple /advanced layout which I would welcome.A configureable screen set system perhaps ( Don’t use groove editor but I’d like checking out grooves and dragging into Logic X, or a large 2 tier dedicated mixer page ? Depending on the preset editing , routing/subgroups and mixer tweaking can feel fiddly.I think psychologically the layout of BFD2 was more intuitive.See the drum , click on it ,edit effects, ambience, done.Perhaps the slightly anaemic graphic representation ,regardless of the loaded preset/kit is alienating.Of course, the more options, the more screen pace required and it becomes a DAW within a DAW A key command for show hide grooves would be nice.