I used to think this as well. It’s very noticeable, but some of that comes down to different devs making expansions for BFD, i.e. Chocolate Audio, Sonic Reality, Platinum Samples. However, there is still inconsistencies among the Fxpansion BFD expansions as well. Some of that may have to do with some being created for certain versions of BFD as the engine and whatever else changed between iterations.
Though it’s annoying in a way and detracts from BFD being a seamless and well-integrated experience, I actually think that this flaw makes each expansion unique in some ways and not sound so cookie cutter like SD3, et al. Sure it sucks to not have expansions work and be flawless right out of the box, but with a little tweaking and saving presets, you can wind up with a kit that doesn’t sound like any other. There’s still going to be some little quirks and flaws here and there, but it’s no different than when you mix live recorded drums… they are all going to have a uniqueness to them and maybe some issues as well, like a piece of the kit being too loud, an articulation not coming through well, or a weird resonance, etc.
I know it’s a drum sampler and they are supposed mitigate the the potential issues of a real live drum recording, but for me I believe that these flaws are helping to make these kits sound like actual live drums. I haven’t tried Dark Farm yet, but I’m going to assume that it doesn’t have the issues that plagued the older expansions and would expect the same for any new kits moving forward. That is until other companies start making expansions for BFD4.
Not all of the FXpansion packs were recorded by the same people either. Anything before 2013 wasn’t myself or Mike - our first pack was Oblivion, and we’ve been making packs ever since and our packs are quite consistent - you can more or less interchange Crush, Horsepower, Vintage Recording Techniques, Metal Snares, Wooden Snares, Jazz Noir, and Dark Farm, and get very similar playback levels and dynamic responses.
Always room for improvement. But a lot of those unique things are what make drum samples so cool. I wouldn’t want to completely discard everything natural about the drum and just map to a known playback curve. That’s how you get … some of the other competition
Dude, I am so loving Oblivion right now. This is my first time using it in a full production and it is sitting so well in the mix, even dry. There is this lively energy to the kit, especially the cymbals.
All I want is a snare that can handle that Bobby Jarzombeck Metal V2 4/4 212.0bpm groove without exhausting every single RR and sounding like an Akai XR10.
The MIDI Groove pack was recorded using Joe Barressi Evil Drums (SD 2.0…BFD2) with a Yamaha DTXtreme III Special Kit.(SD2.0 Performance).
You should be able to replicate the performances considering the MIDI Groove Library was made with old Tech…(well over 10 years old) The BFD installer will install a preset named “EJB Bobby Grooves Preset”.This preset requires the Platinum Samples Evil Drums library.
The Snare used is the Kit 1 LUDWIG Black Beauty 14 x 6.5 REMO Control SoundHead…Coated Black Dot…
Starts at 2:14 Platinum Samples: Bobby Jarzombek Multi-Format Metal MIDI Demo
If you don’t have the Evil Drums Expansion…
The BFD3 Core library has a TAMA Bell Brass Snare…which is very,very similar…
If it’s a performance issue… machine gunning etc…(since you to referred to the AKAI Drum Machine.)
Check the Velocity Layers…Polyphony setting…in the BFD3 Engine.
Try setting the Engine to Full Detail.Velocity layers to 256 and Voices to 128.
(If you currently have it at 128 Velocity layers or less increase that first before the Polyphony)
I have set the Velocities to 512 and the setting stayed ,but I can’t comment on if there is an actual difference between 256 which according to the manual the setting range is 1-256.
I am waiting for MIDI 2.0 to be implemented in Drums…I have made some libraries that I tested in a STRIKE module and I just split the velocities odds and evens for layers A and B
The Yamaha Kit used had a max of 64 Bit Polyphony…but if BFD3 Polyphony is maxed out during playing…(anything playing simultaneously) High BPM Triple Beater kicks/Drum Roll etc…hard to achieve but not impossible especially with speed metal drummers…and using stereo articulations with long tails (some as long as 30 seconds including 5-10+ seconds of silence) in software (and drum modules) you’ll exceed the 64 Polyphony.Keyboards/Synths/Workstations are now being produced at 256 Polyphony…
An extreme example for Polyphony would be …Triplet 32nd at 212BPM = 42.40 nps (notes per sec) and if stereo articulations = 84.8 nps…a 32nd Note at 212BPM = 28.27nps…(divide in 1/2 going down…16th =14.13nps,8th = 7.07nps and so on) add the articulations that are still playing that you can’t hear and polyphony will start to run out and start cancelling notes,usually by priority…1st note played …1st note cancelled etc.Typically Cymbals and Floor Toms ring out for a long period.
Advanced Drum Modules have priority settings for Polyphony…
If system resources get taxed and you are using 24 bit = 32 Bit Floats…16 bit halves the memory footprint…
My comment was more of a lighthearted jape intended to point out that Bobby Jarzombek is such an insane drummer that his dynamics and timing are drum machine-esque. But having such a detailed response is appreciated.
I would appreciate, if the graphics were not so techno computer like. Visuals give a feeling and BFD 2 had more this acoustic look. I got to admit that I don’t like to work with the BFD 3 Interface, cause it’s so cold.
On top of much of the stuff that’s already been requested, i’d like more and different options for the ambience or rooms. The current one does work for most styles of music, but i’m after that late 70’s/early 80’s ‘peg board and hessian’ type, damped room sound.
Ok you can send kit pieces out to things like UAD2 Ocean Way, Capitol Chambers, Relab VSR24 etc, but it would be great to have it contained within BFD itself.
I tend to write drum parts as a piece progresses, i use the drum editor in Cubase as the BFD one is just too small for my eyesight, so an enlargeable drum editor would be another request right up there for myself.
With working the way i do, it’s a bit of a pain having to export the dry drums to send to ‘my room mic channel’ before i start to process the individual outs for each kit piece in Cubase, having different rooms in BFD would negate this for me, guessing i’m not the only one who does this either?
The GUI honestly bugs me less and less now. Now that I’m mixing BFD3 pretty much exclusively in Pro Tools, after I route everything and tweak the kits, the plugin window stays closed for the most part. All of the little bugs that still continue to pop up is a way bigger deal to me, as that’s what stops production, not how pretty the interface looks. The sound has always been there. What is most important after that is consistent stability.
Now for someone who uses the groove editor and mixer, I can totally see how the GUI and clunkiness could be an issue and a pet peeve.
I think a good indicator of potentially how good BFD4 is going to be, is the BFD Player when it officially comes out. Even with it’s limited capabilities, if it turns out to be more stable and less finicky than BFD3, then that will be a good sign that the main issue is just BFD3 and how old it is. Trying to add modern compatibility/updates with such old code and engine must be really difficult and no wonder why when they address one thing, it creates a slew of other problems.
Once they finally get an Apple Silicon build covering AAX/VST3 and it’s usable, they just need to leave BFD3 alone and focus all their resources on BFD4, so they can release it as soon as possible. That’s the only way BFD is going to have a chance at gaining credibility again in the market. And please make it a reasonable upgrade price for those of us who have been loyal and stuck it out these past few years. I’ve done my part trying to spread the word on the good things about BFD3 during past sales and clear up any misconceptions. I’ve had to correct people a few times in other forums. That’s been tough to do with the valid criticisms of inMusic, the LM and bugs though.
Definitely agreed that soon as the AAX/VST3 versions are done that BFD3 should probably be left alone. I personally love the look and functionality of BFD3 but I feel any UI changes/tweaks/updates should be exclusive to BFD4.
Another feature I’ve been thinking about…whatever room the kits are recorded in, there should be a way to export an IR of that room for use with other instruments in your project. Say you’re using drums from El Dorado and like that room, I wanna be able to use that room on my bass track too.
…And speaking of rooms…DO SOME KITS AT NRG STUDIOS in Los Angeles!! I kinda consider that my mecca, since the first album I ever bought–Korn’s Follow the Leader–was done there.
Expanding on an earlier suggestion on cymbal packs, I’d love to see cymbals done by the collection. For instance, don’t just give us random mish-mashes, It’d be awesome to see the whole set of Paiste 602s or Zildjian As or whatever so we’re getting those super cohesive drum sounds.
I’m not sure if someone else has mentioned it, but I’d love for there to be some sort of drum replacement functionality like Trigger built into BFD4, would make my workflow so much smoother.
Sorry that I didn’t scroll over 500 replies . . . . so be kind if I my wish has already been posted.
I wish that you would update the keymapping to the existing and actual E-Drum Modules.
There has changed so much!!! You are for me the best sounding library, but as an E-Drummer I wish to plug and play with my kit!! Especially the new digital parts from Roland.
Other companies support these technologies like a VH-14 with al it’s versatile playabilities.
Cheers Ilja
The problem with implementing something like that, is the output routing is going to vary depending on the kit/expansion used. There wouldn’t be a one-size-fits-all routing preset that would cover every expansion.
It’s tedious, but I’ve been setting up custom routing to DAW for expansions I tend to use and save those as a template. I can then import that kit with the routing all set in a new session. In it’s current state, you usually have to make some compromises with BFD3 channel routing, as you have very limited mono/stereo outputs. I try and get all the direct kick mics balance how I want it and send only the summed kick channel to the DAW. That right there can save you a few mono outputs. For snares I like to route individual direct mics though because I compress the the top and bottom mics differently. Direct cymbals are another one where you can just route them all to an aux and send that summed channel to the DAW. It really comes down to your workflow and how you prefer to handle drums in the DAW, as to how you want to route things. But yea, I’m hoping BFD4 has 32 mono and 16 stereo outputs. That should be enough to get everything on it’s own output without compromise.
Currently, there are a few auto-assign output options.
Yep, just to add, unless you’re doing the same sort of thing over and over, or you’re lucky enough to be in demand for ‘your sound’, then a little pragmatism and depth of knowledge can go a LONG way.
It’s still a damn sight quicker than having to mic and trouble shoot a full kit IRL.
A related preference: some detailed tutorials. The current batch are some 9 years old and are inadequate. While I love the versatility, flexibility, and options of BFD3, it can be wickedly confusing. Probably why some prefer the ‘out-of-the-box’ competition. So a roadmap (YouTubes) of some examples of how to use, say, the Envelope or Loudness features. Is it better to do effects within BFD3 or leave them raw and just do that in the DAW? What are some routing options? With some examples? These are all things I struggle with (and I’m sure I’m not alone), which is why most users gravitate to the competition. When I can’t get the sounds I want after playing around with BFD3 for hours, I’ll sometimes just throw up my hands and just open up SSD. The complexity and versatility of BFD3(4) requires some better instruction to broaden the customer base.
