Hihat variable articulation with TD11

For me, it seems, that the new “fixed Roland keymap” loads correctly and the presets of the extension libraries work as expected. But the standard presets like “BFD3 60s Pop” still don’t close the HiHat fully…

So I still use the workaround to scale the MIDI data of the HiHat pedal to 127 with another app…

Joining in on this thread as I’m having a similar issue with a TD-4 and VH-11 hi-hat with BFD3 (latest).

I started with the TD-4 MIDI map and then adjusted the 8 sliders in the hi-hat setting in BFD to range from 80 (closed threshold) to 10 (open threshold). Variable Tip and Variable Shank are accurately mapped though they

Unfortunately, I’m still not getting the “closed tip” sounds when the pedal is closed all the way and I’m not sure why (?). Here’s a screenshot that includes the MIDI Log and mapping/response of a single closed HH tip hit (during the hit the HiHat response was lit in red (closed range).

I even tried saving a new MIDI Map, replacing the variable tip and shank assignments and mapping half-open tip/shank for the open articulations and closed tip/shank for the closed articulatons with no improvement.

Stumped!

Could you send me a midi clip of you playing your hihat with constant 4th or 8th notes, and slowly opening the hihat?? I can check it here and see what is going on.

Cheers!
Drew

1 Like

Thx Drew

Attached!
BFD3 hi-hat closed to open hits.zip (367 Bytes)

@BFD_Drew, using the MIDI file I attached (triggering BFD3 in ProTools). I found that I don’t get the closed articulation until I drag the pedal CC data on the track in ProTools to 97 or so. My custom Hi-hat mapping in BFD3 is set so that anything above 80 should be fully closed (???)

I had the same issue with core kits, but not with Noire kit…

@BFD_Drew: Just downloaded BFD Player and man, it just works with all the mappings for my TD-11 + VH-11 and instant great sounds. Great app! The hihat articulation is really realistic - no sudden volume bursts or drops like in BFD3 :slight_smile:

Is there any info about how Player and BFD are planned to develop in the future / work together?
Of course it would be splendid to have the player presets / mapping as starting point in the full BFD app…

Update: Just found some infos on bfd3 >> player in the forum: BFD Player and additional kits? - #6 by BFD_Drew

2 Likes

I can confirm, loading up BFD Player and loading the TD-4 Key Map works pretty well with the VH-11 right out of the gate.

1 Like

I’ll investigate soon. Didn’t get a chance today, apologies.

2 Likes

And to clarify, when you use the TD-4 in BFD3.4.5, you get different behaviour?? The map in Player is the same as the one in BFD3. So if you do get different behaviour I think that would rule out the map.

Yeah, I wonder, if it is possible to get the exact same Roland hihat results in BFD3 or if a bug in the mappings prevents it at the moment or it’s just my ignorance of the options :nerd_face:
All the hihat settings in BFD3 are confusing me more than I hear differences in the behavior.

AHA!

I think I’ve found the problem. Strangely, it actually has to do with the “1/8” slider position. Originally, I had the hi-hat mapped with each slider 10 values apart (“010” to “080”). I just discovered that I can get the closed variable tip hits (080+) to play correctly if I move the beginning of the “1/8” range to start at a value of “056” (I had to move some sliders above this one out of the way to make room). This is with the Closed range set exactly where it was (080-127).

I’ve now remapped the top seven sliders so that they are spaced by a value of 8 (008, 016, 024, 032, 040, 048, 056) and with the last slider set to “080” everything is working. If I move the 056 slider one value higher to 057. The variable 080+ hits start to open up, audibly moving into the 1/8th open range though still registering in the UI as in the “Closed” range.

There’s clearly a problem with BFD3 translating these controller values to the correct samples.

1 Like

Wow, Sherlock Hi-hat!!! That indeed fixes the open hi-hat! You solved it :slight_smile:
What options do you use next to the ranges?
I have these activated:
Bildschirmfoto 2023-10-18 um 21.41.53

1 Like

Glad to hear confirmation! Hopefully the earlier users get pinged with the developments in this thread.

I currently have the same settings as yours but have HiHat Transition Model selected as well. I also have “Auto pedal event” selected but I think that’s a byproduct of me desperately trying different settings. I just toggled it off and I’m not noticing a difference while playing the HH.

One unrelated question, now that we’ve got things working :wink:

Is it possible to rebalance the volume between the closed/open articulations? The current hihats I’m playing with (Zildjian New Beats Mastersound) are significantly louder with open articulations than with closed. Hitting a few closed taps and opening on the last to let it sizzle causes a pronounced volume swell as the samples transition (almost like a compressor is releasing during the sustain, effects are all off btw).

NOTE: looks like some hats are balanced more evenly, perhaps a gain staging issue with the samples themselves :frowning:

On the options:
I think the pedal event is only necessary with MIDI hardware that has no extra closed signal. Roland has an extra note for that.

And the Hi-hat Transitional Model changes the sound of an open tip when closing the pedal and gives a splash sound when going fast down on the pedal and immediately up again… I don’t know if I like it when going fast on the pedal… but the time can be set in the preferences > session > hi-hat threshold

More on the options here: Using Electronic Drumkits

On the volume differences:
Maybe it’s easy to compress the Hi-hat and have less dynamics…

1 Like

One thing that probably should be mentioned…
BFD3 Dark Farm and BFD Player Core/BFD Player Dark Mahogany Expansion have the 1/8 samples for the upgraded Hi Hat
The Core Library Has the 15" Zildjian K Light Hihat …Dark Mahogany has the 16" Zildjian Sweet Hihat … so you will notice a difference between those and the older expansions…

I’m not really sure how this applies to the thread/convo (?)

The reply is under your post above…

I see. Yes, during the transition from 5 to 9 zones, something likely became lost in translation.

Is hard to say what would be ideal but I would think that the center sets of zones would “combine” in the absence of discrete articulations for the new zones. Being that there are 7 center zones, it’s difficult to know what would be best. I would think BFD would be merging controller data when using libraries with only five zones. Something like this:

Open
7/8-1/4 (combining two zones)
5/8-3/8 (combining three zones)
1/4-1/8 (combining two zones)
Closed

I don’t think there is anything unsolvable here in regards to translating the samples correctly, I think it’s just a bug.

1 Like

@BFD_Drew

Any chance to look over this yet? Pretty sure we’ve found a legitimate bug that breaks the use of a Roland VH-xx HiHat controller with BFD3 out of the box. Even with the workaround, it forces a user to limit the effective range even further than the 90 values we are already limited to.

1 Like

@BFD_Drew

Would love to have you follow-up with the convo we were having. Thx!

1 Like