Crashing with certain 8 Bit Kit samples - updated - now with workaround for the BUG

BFD_Drew · October 13, 2022, 3:19pm

Could you please send me the OLD artictweak.xml file, and could you also allow BFD3 to generate a new one and send me that.

And if you do still have a version of BFD3 from FXpansion, can you delete the artictweaks from the loudness cache AND the kitpiece in question, and send me the new one that the OLD version of BFD3 creates - basically I wanna see what piece of data is being generated badly, then we can address the fix.

arthurcclarke · October 13, 2022, 3:39pm

Drew - you’re barking up the wrong tree.

There is nothing wrong with the artictweak.xml file. You can replace it with the old FXP one - or you can let BFD3 generate a NEW one , which it will do if you delete the top level directory containing it. You can even download the whole installer again and use the one from there. Zero difference - byte identical files.

The fact that the file exists at all causes the crash.

It’s fine to leave the .xml file in the data directory, you just need to rename the one in the /appdata directory.

If you’re interested the difference in the ‘new’ BFD3 xml compared to FXP is that it adds some volume curve information.

Something similar is happening with the other kit pieces that others have reported causing crashes - but I’ve spend several hours tracking that showstopping bug down and I’m not sure I have the hear/time/inclination to fix another.

it’s very easy to reproduce - why not try ?

Incidentally I’ve found a few more bugs - that don’t cause a crash - but InMusic have had 18 months on this, with very little progress it seems ? Sorry if I come across as a bit annoyed but I’ve spent £1000s on BFD products in the last 2 decades and it’s frustrating seeing all that money and potential end up like this.

BFD_Drew · October 13, 2022, 5:01pm

I can’t reproduce it here. I’m able to load every single 8-Bit Kit drum, without any crashing. There is something going on here that is more complex than you may realise.

If you won’t send me the files, then I can’t debug this.

What I can say is, here, I do not have any legacy FXpansion era packs. It is all new packs from the newest inMusic installers. I don’t know if there is some data conflict that could be happening here; I’d have to check it out. Extremely difficult to diagnose this without actual evidence to go on.

Just as a point of order, I’ve been working on BFD with Angus, Skot, and the rest of the FX crew since 2008 (and a bunch of FXers are still with BFD to this day). I’m the one who built all of the installers for the expansion packs, did the QA testing, and even a ton of presets and what not. So I’m very familiar with what these files do. If you send them over, I might be able to spot some errant data.

It feels like the artic tweak file has something inside that causes BFDengine to crash out. That stands to reason if removing it makes the crash go away.

arthurcclarke · October 13, 2022, 5:23pm

I can send you series of IDENTICAL .xml files and other files that are autogenerated by the latest version of BFD3. They all crash when you try to play the sample. ANY and ALL .xml files being present in the /appdata folder cause BFD3 to crash when attempting to play the samples.

err? I’ve given you some evidence ? and I’ve managed to find a workaround.

yep, and I’ve been using BFD longer that that - what’s your point ?

right - well done

maybe so - but the NEW autogenerated ones also cause the crash. It’s not the CONTENTS of the file but some other factor here.

as I say, you are barking up the wrong tree. Sending those files WILL NOT HELP.

happy to work with you on this but your track record is not good - are you saying if I send you the various files you PROMISE to fix it ? Do you still have developers actually working there ?

ok

BFD_Drew · October 13, 2022, 5:36pm

Yes.

You don’t know that. Send the files, I’ll take a look.

arthurcclarke · October 13, 2022, 5:48pm

just to confirm - I’ll send you several .xml files. Some of them are the original defaults from the original install (which you ALREADY HAVE) - some have some extra info deposited there by BFD3.

ALL (yes ALL) of which crash BFD3 when they are in the /appdata folder and by analysing the difference between them you will be able to diagnose the issue ? (ha ha, bloody ha). It’s not the DIFFERENCE in the files or their contents that is the issue.

That’s especially interesting as you don’t actually have any legacy era packs installed and yet you look after QA - explains a lot…but I’m sure your developer are all over this. Just checking - they have been working on this for the 18 months, since Skot and Angus sold out ?

I also notice that you didn’t comment on this thread

despite various people confirming the issue.

BFD_Drew · October 13, 2022, 6:01pm

Please send me the files, all this extra stuff is really unnecessary.

arthurcclarke · October 13, 2022, 6:04pm

will do - but as I’ve said several times you’re barking up the wrong tree

ALL the .xml files crash BFD3 when loading those samples, including the default ones and autogenerated ones. So looking at the difference between them will tell you nothing at all. The fault is NOT IN THOSE FILES.

and that’s why we are where we are with BFD.

thanks

is it ? - in the last 18 months under your stewardship we really haven’t seen much improvement…actually the FXP version works better, it certainly doesn’t crash quite as frequently…so we’ve moved backwards. If you wanna take ownership then do it but if not then accept you’ve basically screwed what was a great product.

arthurcclarke · October 14, 2022, 9:37am

3 xml files - ALL of which crash BFD3 when they are in the /appdata LoudnessCache folder (NOT the kit piece data folder)

These files are autogenerated by BFD3 the first time the kit piece loads. As I mentioned - this is fine in the FXP BFD3 so it’s something that changes made by InMusic has broken.

The files are NOT corrupt - and the problem is the crash when you attempt to play the articulation IF any xml file exists. The workaround is given in previous replies.

note: the ‘code’ tag in Discourse isn’t very kind to the formatting but if you go in as a Mod and edit my post you’ll see the original formatting - so it will be a bit easier to read.

FIRST FILE - the one generated by FXP BFD3

SECOND FILE - the one autogenerated by In Music BFD3 (same but with gaincurve points added)

THIRD FILE - from the data folder - same as 1 but has a “velocityLayerTweaks” count=“18”

BFD_Drew · October 14, 2022, 10:28am

Okay. Those files are definitely corrupt. The loudness measurements all say “-inf” - that is why the kitpieces are crashing. Have confirmed that this is the issue at hand.

BFD3 only regenerates these files if two things are true:

The LoudnessCache folder doesn’t have artictweaks.xml for the kitpiece articulation in question.
The kitpiece audio folder itself doesn’t have artictweaks.xml for the articulation in question.

From that, I am assuming that you’re only deleting/renaming in one place and not the other. Because when I clear out all of my 8-bit kit tweak files, and let BFD3 regenerate them, it no longer has bad loudness data.

I took a look at the raw data on the server and this does look like a bug in packaging - these files should never have been bundled. Strangely enough, my local data didn’t have this problem. My data is always in-flux because of all of the development work I do, so I’m assuming I cleared them out at some point in the past. That means the data I have isn’t the same as the dat you have.

All in all, was useful to see the files in order to confirm the data inside them. That then led me to looking at the server data and comparing it against yours and my local copy, to find out the cause. So thanks for that.

Ultimately, it is a simple 10 minute fix, and then an upload of a fixed installer bundle. I’ll have that done by the end of the day.

If you want to fix it yourself, you can delete all of those tweaks xml files across loudness cache folder AND the 8 Bit Kit audio folder, and let BFD3 generate them completely from scratch; that should create correct data.

BFD_Drew · October 14, 2022, 10:33am

Other packs this affects:

Deluxe
Eldorado
Percussion
Jazz & Funk
XFL
JEX

I’ve not checked the Sonic Reality ones yet, but I would assume it is the same issue.

arthurcclarke · October 14, 2022, 10:38am

I did that on the crashing folders already - and the IMBFD xml file was autogenerated by BFD3

and I think you need to delete the containing folder in /appdata as it won’t autogenerate if the folder is present (as mentioned earlier)

EDIT - and when you delete /appdata and data xml files BFD recreates them with the same -inf data
EDIT2 - I’m not seeing this in the Sonic Reality kits or any of the FXP ones you mentioned ?

BFD_Drew · October 14, 2022, 11:05am

Defo seeing it here:

Very curious that you’re seeing those -inf values being recreated. I’m wondering if this is a bug that has come and gone many times, and it has snuck into the .31 build you have.

I’m on a different internal build, and I’m not seeing it here. Hmmmmmm. More investigation required. I’m fixing 8BK now.

arthurcclarke · October 14, 2022, 11:15am

All those kit pieces load just fine for me without copying .xml > .old

and just checking one at random

Vistalite DLX 22 kick (hit) - shows .inf only on the master001.wav file

loads fine here

BFD_Drew · October 14, 2022, 11:19am

Triggering from midi as well??

arthurcclarke · October 14, 2022, 11:30am

yes - although maybe I need to trigger at every velocity level ?

EDIT - yep at velocity = 1 it shows the error
EDIT2 - as do other kit pieces as you listed. They error at the velocity levels indicated with the -inf

BFD_Drew · October 14, 2022, 12:23pm

Yep, figured as much. I’ll get fixes out for the stuff I can see. 8 Bit Kit fix it done. Could do with testing it before release. I’ll PM you.

arthurcclarke · October 14, 2022, 12:27pm

perfect

I don’t have the percussion set but I have all the other ones

this doesn’t explain the crash in the sonic reality kits - do you have them installed ?

EDIT - those seem to have a invalid (original dev) filepath in the BFDinfo.xml - I’ll hack around and see if I can get them to work

arthurcclarke · October 14, 2022, 1:35pm

I think I’ve tracked down the issue with the various SR kits - just working out the fix now

some sloppy work by SR in this instance:

arthurcclarke · October 14, 2022, 2:39pm

…and we are waiting for Drew to fix all the broken files - as they are a timebomb waiting to happen if you use any of those expansion packs. I’d suggest you update if you have them.