# Crash/Ride/Hi-Hat choke problem on Alesis Surge SE
**URL:** https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892
**Category:** Bug Reports
**Created:** [March 21, 2024, 12:00pm UTC](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892 "2024-03-21T12:00:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Guigouz](https://forum.bfddrums.com/u/Guigouz)
#### Post date: [March 21, 2024, 12:00pm UTC](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892/1 "2024-03-21T12:00:46Z")
Hello BFD community,
I recently bought the Alesis Surge Special Edition kit, which comes with the BFD Player software licence, with the Core Library along with the Dark Mahogany expansion kit.
The Surge SE kit comes with two chokable cymbals (Crash and Ride).
The problem I’m encountering is the following :
Whenever I choke a cymbal, it remains choked. If I hit it it makes almost no sound, as a very quiet closed Hi-Hat. That happens either on the crash or the ride cymbal.
I can un-choke them only if I restart the BFD Player, or if I switch the preset to another.
The same phenomenon is happening on the Hi-Hat. Whenever I close it, it remains closed and I get a very quiet sound out of it, as if I my foot was pressing the pedal firmly, but it actually isn’t.
I am quite new to this kind of software so I do not have much idea on what to try to fix this issue.
Any idea would help.
Thanks
Guigouz
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### Author:  [@CHASER](https://forum.bfddrums.com/u/CHASER)
#### Post date: [March 21, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892/2 "2024-03-21T16:18:44Z")
Which BFD Player Version is installed?
Is it the Version that came with the Kit…or the Version which requires the InMusic Software Center.
Click on the BFD Player LOGO…Current Version is 1.2.0.31
The old Version that was bundled with the SE Kits was . 0.9.0.32
If you need the InMusic Version see this Topic
> [@BFD Player and additional kits?](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/bfd-player-and-additional-kits/4887/30):
>
> There is now a link to download the inMusic Software Center… Once installed …Launch and it will access your inMusic Profile and you will have access to All Downloads in your inMusic Profile… The Software Center will show Download…then Install. The Software Center will sync and auto update all products when opened.
Lately I have been running across a number of the Modules (Nitro,Surge,Nitro Max) which are advertised as coming with Continuous/Variable Type Controllers…
However the Module is not sending CC4…
I haven’t heard anything back from those with the issue as they were contacting Alesis Support.
I attached a Map with After Touch turned off…check and see how the Module plays now.
The HH Pedal issues may or may not be fixed…but No Cymbal Chokes…
I don’t have one of these modules for testing any more.The Modules are Re-Brands based on the **[Medeli DD-512](https://www.mecldata.com/download/manual/aw_DD512_Manual_G11_110928.pdf)**.The last one I had was the DM7X…over 10 years ago.
If the HH issues are resolved…Someone that uses these Modules may have to setup MIDIOX or a MIDI Monitoring Utility and see if the Cymbals send a Choke Note.
There have been a few posts on this Topic…
> [@BFD Player and Alesis Surge Mesh SE - strange hi-hat behaviour \[Resolved\]](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/bfd-player-and-alesis-surge-mesh-se-strange-hi-hat-behaviour-resolved/4585):
>
> Hello everyone, I recently purchased the Surge Mesh SE that came with BFD Player bundled and it was finally released for download this month. Since I’m an early adopter, I suppose I have to work to figure some bugs out. I have the software and the included “dark mahoganny” preset pack installed on my M1 Macbook Air. I’m excited about the sound quality and the relative ease of use of the interface, but at this point I’ve encountered an issue that might be a deal breaker if its not sorted out s…
> [@Hi-Hat Issues with BFD Player 1.2](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/hi-hat-issues-with-bfd-player-1-2/5845):
>
> Ever since the 1.2 update my Hi-Hat doesn’t work properly. I have an Alesis Surge Mesh kit. When I load a new preset such as 80’s Lover the open Hi-Hat sounds normal, as soon as I close the Hi-Hat it no longer opens. Therefore I have the fully closed and half open available with no way to get the completely open to work again unless I reload the preset. I checked the midi notes in the module and they are routed correctly. Any ideas? Thanks, Nick
[Alesis Surge Mesh SE - NO AT.zip](https://forum.bfddrums.com/uploads/short-url/ceSS3aBvMDoGctBBKZVeVHxK00f.zip) (1.3 KB)
Unzip…copy/Paste to
**Windows** …C:\ProgramData\>BFD Drums\>BFDPlayer\>System\>Maps.
**macOS** Library\>Application Support\>BFD Drums\>BFDPlayer\>System\>Maps
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### Author:  [@pantheis](https://forum.bfddrums.com/u/pantheis)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2024, 1:37am UTC](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892/3 "2024-04-10T01:37:26Z")
I have the Surge Mesh SE, and can confirm the file you attached fixes the issue with the hi hat “sticking” to somewhere half open after pressing the pedal once. As expected your fix does stop cymbal chokes from working.
I used MIDI-OX to obtain the following data. I hope this helps find a solution to allow the pedal to be used correctly for closed, half open, and open sounds, and still allow cymbal choking. If you need more or different data, please let me know. I’m very computer literate and willing to help troubleshoot this as much as needed.
Cymbal hit and choke
I have others but can only post one attachment per reply as a new user.
Thank you!
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### Author:  [@CHASER](https://forum.bfddrums.com/u/CHASER)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2024, 4:15pm UTC](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892/4 "2024-04-10T16:15:57Z")
Thanks for the response…you are only 1 of 2 in years that has provided any MIDI info.
Unfortunately…the same MIDI Note is sent with Key After Touch.
Some of the more advanced Alesis Modules send a separate (but fixed) Note with the option to turn the Note ON/OFF.These MIDI Notes are not Documented/shown in the MIDI Mapping.
For Example…the Alesis STRIKE
CRASH 1
48-Crash 1 BOW
49-Crash 1 EDGE
34 Crash 1 CHOKE
An option that might work (somewhat) would be to modify the Preset and place the Cymbal (Crash 1- #49) in a Choke Group so the Cymbal would choke…say…when you kick…or a Tom rim after.
If the module supported dual Zone Cymbals then you could assign the Edge Note to the same Choke Group as the Bow and it would choke.
I attached a Preset with ALL Crash Cymbals in a Choke Group.
When you hit another crash…the one currently ringing out should stop…
I figured while I was at it I would also include New Macros.
I don’t know why these modules aren’t sending CC4 as there weren’t many entry level kits with Continuous/Variable Hi Hat Controllers (Realhat) , most Entry level Alesis Kits came with the “DM Hat” which was Switch Type/Open Closed…now I see some Continuous/Variable Controllers with DM Hat and the Product Description stating includes “Continuous Variable Pedal”…doesn’t state sends Continuous/Variable Pedal Position so there is confusion as the controller 1/2 open position is interpreted by the module and converted to a MIDI Note and passed on.
I also wonder why after all the years this modules has been out…there hasn’t been more complaints unless being entry level the user didn’t know any better being new to E-Drums.I posted the Link to the Logic Forum which is a complicated Fix for that Specific DAW for most just starting out.
The Modules are a Re-Brand so also under countless names over the years and trying to convince the Developer/Manufacturer (Medeli) to issue a Firmware update like changing Key After Touch to CC4…or just turn off After Touch for the Hi Hat so the chokes for the Cymbals work…is not that simple as each Re-Brand had custom Firmware.
Medeli has only issued 1 Firmware update in the past 15 years and that was for an issue with the original DM6 Module.
Now that I have the info for both the pedal and Cymbal choke I can do some inquiries.
I can’t guarantee any solution tho.
Unzip…place in BFD Player Core Library Presets Folder
BFD Player\BFD Player - Core Library\Presets
[80’s Lover ALL Crsh CHK GRP.zip](https://forum.bfddrums.com/uploads/short-url/pq0yXEXVhPkoOtKtBywgoTDbNn3.zip) (13.4 KB)
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### Author:  [@pantheis](https://forum.bfddrums.com/u/pantheis)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 3:38am UTC](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892/5 "2024-04-11T03:38:38Z")
I won’t have time tonight to try the 80’s Lover ALL Crsh setup, but I’ll get to that soon as I can and get back to you, thank you!
Please let me know if you need any other midi data or want me to test anything else. I’ve also sent a support request to Alesis and made them aware of this thread, hoping that it might help drive a solution. It sounds like this is a problem for anyone using the Surge (and others) and BFDPlayer, and you’re probably right that people just aren’t reporting it because they don’t know it isn’t working right.
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### Author:  [@CHASER](https://forum.bfddrums.com/u/CHASER)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 4:02pm UTC](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892/6 "2024-04-11T16:02:40Z")
As mentioned previously…I don’t know exactly why there is Key After touch for the Hi Hat unless it’s just been implemented when the module was original produced…
Drum software was originally intended for use with key boards in a studio…not E-Drums.
E-Drum support has increased over the years as have E-Drums as a whole and the Hi Hat experience has been one of the issues.There is still software that doesn’t support CC4.
Medeli currently offers around 35 modules…out of those 35 being the best , the DD512 is 12th.
The same module was available with different Firmware( Features/options…kit/instrument/sound count.)
**[Medeli DD512](http://www.mecldata.com/download/manual/aw_DD512_Manual_G11_110928.pdf)**… **[Medeli DD514](http://www.mecldata.com/download/manual/aw_DD514_Manual_G03_140109.pdf)**…**[Medeli DD516](http://www.mecldata.com/download/manual/DD516_Manual_G06_101108.pdf)**
The fact being this module design has been around so long and according to the MIDI Implementation Chart for this module there is NO CC4 Recognized or Transmitted.You can see other CC that are recognized using an external controller and the module as a Sound Generator.(ALL Manuals pg 39)
It also shows Key After Touch is not Transmitted…which it is.
The Medeli modules (as far as Hi hat) go from Beginner (open/closed)…Entry (Open/Closed/1/2 open…to advanced/Intermediate (Continuous/variable CC4).
**MIDI IMPLEMENTATION CHART**
In the Alesis lineup only the Nitro/Surge including the 3rd gen Nitro Max module have 1/2 open.
The Old School way for creating a Hi Hat was to place everything in a Choke group to simulate one.
The STRIKE Multipad also doesn’t recognize or send CC4 but has the feature/option to place the Voices in a group…then you would set velocity range for each Voice.
One thing you could check is to turn on GM MODE and see if the After Touch is shut off for the Hi hat.Check in MIDI OX.I have seen some Online Drum Courses like Melodics require Alesis modules to be placed into GM MODE as it doesn’t support a Variable Hi Hat…which the Module doesn’t send anyway.
If it does then load the normal MIDI Map and normal preset,it could also then not have a Splash or 1/2 Open.
Most of the Alesis modules use the default GM mapping for the Hi Hat.
46-Open…44-Pedal…42-Closed.GM Standard Drum Mapping goes from 35-81
Press Utility, then press Page/Select until the desired setting appears in the display:
GM (General MIDI Mode) = ON
The issue with GM is it is/was the Industry Standard before there were Multiple Zones such as rim and edge MIDI Notes.Since then Roland (GS)…Yamaha (XG) and others added to it and/or expanded and created their own.
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### Author:  [@pantheis](https://forum.bfddrums.com/u/pantheis)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2024, 1:51am UTC](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892/7 "2024-04-14T01:51:52Z")
I was able to try the 80’s Lover ALL Crsh CHK GRP preset, but I didn’t seem to notice any difference and cymbals do not seem to choke. Maybe I’m not clear what I should be testing with that one?
I also checked GM mode on and off, and it made zero difference on the midi data showing in MIDI-OX. It still triggered the aftertouch on fully depressing the pedal, and still sent the exact same sequence of data, including still having open, half open, and closed options.
Thank you!
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### Author:  [@CHASER](https://forum.bfddrums.com/u/CHASER)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2024, 3:07am UTC](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892/8 "2024-04-14T03:07:33Z")
The Cymbals (Crash) were all placed in the same choke group…so after hitting crash 1…the next cymbal hit (Crash 2) should cancel out/choke the one currently ringing out…
Go to this Topic
> [@Hi-Hat Issues with BFD Player 1.2](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/hi-hat-issues-with-bfd-player-1-2/5845/16):
>
> Thanks for the response and confirming that there is an issue for these modules…Nitro/Surge (Medeli DD512) and possibly the Nitro Max…which all have the 1/2 open feature/HH Pedal setup. @CHASER since I am not familiar with bfd keymap files format, could you please tell me how (if possible) to switch it from “variable” to a 3-position switch? I just want note 46 to correspond open hihat, 42 to closed, 23 to half-opened, 44 to “chick” and 21 to splash. Is it possible? By Default…ALL map files …
It has been confirmed that v1.2 has issues with the Surge/Nitro and possibly Nitro Max modules which have the same 1/2 open HH and Pedal… BFD Playerv1.1 doesn’t have the same issues.
Check your BFD Player Version…if it’s v1.2…uninstall BFD Player then re-install v1.1.030…load the normal maps and presets and check if everything works properly.
I provided links for both Win and macOS
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### Author:  [@Tamango](https://forum.bfddrums.com/u/Tamango)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2024, 11:48pm UTC](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/crash-ride-hi-hat-choke-problem-on-alesis-surge-se/5892/9 "2024-04-14T23:48:15Z")
Hi!
@pantheis @Guigouz
There is a big chance that your issues might be resolved via downgrading BFD Player version and using a slightly changed mapping for Surge SE kit.
I’ve uploaded windows/mac installers with updated mapping (thanks to Chaser) and posted links in [this post](https://forum.bfddrums.com/t/hi-hat-issues-with-bfd-player-1-2/5845/19).
P.S.
The initial images uploaded by Chaser didn’t do the trick in my case (MacOS). However, after he uploaded an original, big, 5.5 GB image of BFDPlayer+Core library installer, I’ve managed to re-pack a minimalistic, software only (no content) installer image with a fixed mapping for Alesis Surge Mesh SE kit included (which probably will work for nitro kits as well).