After updating from BFD 3.2.3.3 to 3.4.0.24 recently (and 3.4.1 is downloading now…) I’m having trouble getting variable hihat articulation working properly with a Roland TD11K kit.
In BFD 3.2 I got the full range of open to closed hats sounding correctly, but in BFD 3.4 (with all the same settings for hihat controller and articulation) I only get from fully open to about 1/4 open, and no closed sound.
The TD11 module outputs CC4 values in the range 0 (fully open) to 90 (fully closed), so I’ve got the articulation “closed” threshold set to around 85. I started with the TD11 key map preset which has the closed threshold at 84.
In BFD 3.4 it feels like this threshold is not actually setting the closed point, but maybe the 1/4 open point (or the transition point between the two). No matter what I set for thresholds and other options, I can’t get the fully closed hihat sound. Has something changed with the articulation algorithm between these versions of BFD or is there some other new setting that I’m missing? There doesn’t seem to be a way to adjust the input range for the CC.
I compared with a MIDI controller keyboard using a controller know to generate the full 0-127 range for CC4, and the variable hihat works fine, so it seems that newer BFD versions do require the full CC range for correct articulation.
Not sure about the hat, but I have noticed that setting response curves produces very little effect on the sounds of kit pieces. Definitely something worth looking into and double checking it works as intended.
OK man first off you need to say what hats you use or it’s pure guesswork
my guess is cy 5 vh10 or vh11
First, check the TD11 is still set to one of them & midi cc 4 90 is on screen & you have selected the correct hat pedal in your settings.
local off if you have any latency.
Ok over to BFD Is the Roland TD11 mapping preset on? sorry to state all the obvious but things can get overlooked or get factory set to the wrong settings.
Now yes you would expect that with the correct preset mapping it should all work at least up to a point out of the box but it seems they did not think it worth checking the hats …
you may get lucky if you try the mapping presets for TD 8,10,15, or 20 as some actually work better than your specific module.
Sorry I can not help more we spent an age attempting to get the hats going and I don’t have my Roland kit anymore to cover this at any depth but hope you find something of use here or stumble upon a solution as It often feels like fixing a light fuse in the dark I know.
It’s a great drum VST but user friendly is not a word that would ever come to mind if nothing at all works pull out your cables to the hats and plug them in again as a last resort and I am not joking.
I know you want the hats to simply work as they do with the Roland module and to be honest the mapping and an intuitive manual should do this off the bat other drum VSTs seem to so why it does not work for some of us with older modules now is a great letdown. You can if all else fails is to download a trial of say Addictive or Ez just to check if the hats are still a problem that is what we did and never looked back.
I can confirm I have the same problem with TD11 and VH11 hats as described by Mattcro. Every version after 3.2.3.3 has had this problem including the latest release. I had high hopes after doing the migration to 3.4 but the only answer seems to be to stay on 3.2.3.3 until it is fixed.
I have exactly the same problem with my TD-11 and BFD3.
My workaround is insert Transformer in MIDI Insert of BFD3 Instrument track and set the value as below:
Filter Target:
( Type is, Equal, Controller, And
MIDI Controller No., Equal, 4)
I asked on the beta channel for a solution on this problem It seems, that the new zones in BFD3.4 for hihats don’t work with the old mappings that have less zones set up…
It looks like this:
When I looked at the older BFD3 versions this zone setup was present:
But as said by @mattcro - if you remove all the new zones (=move them onto the 4 zone values 17/39/60/84) you still get no fully closed hihat sound…
MIDI scaling CC04 works as a workaround… i.e. for Ableton you can use a CC Scaler… or in Bitwig the Polynom modulator (mapping only the 0.00 to 1.00 values with 1.40*x) on a CC device.
Update: The beta crew answered that “this is a known bug” with the vh-11 hihat - so there is no solution with BFD coming to fix the 0-90 range instead of 0-127…
It’s not BFD’s responsibility to ensure that Roland conform to the midi standard. At this time, there is no way for BFD to correct this. It’s a good feature request, but not a bug.
Hi there, I really think that the Roland TD-11/15 hihat behavior worked correctly with some tweaking in old BFD versions as described by the original poster…
“The Pedal transitions settings can be used to overcome the common problem of hihat controller pedals not sending out the maximum possible range of MIDI CC values. For example, its maximum value (when fully closed) may be 90 instead of 127. If this is the case, adjust the transition point between closed and 1/4-open so that its value is 90 or less - 80 would be a good starting point to try - and move the other sliders to appropriate points over the rest of the available range.”
So the problem, that even with a tweaked transition point around 90 the hihat never sounds fully closed is new to me.
Anyways, if it’s just about the wording between a bug or feature request, please take it as a feature request for an upcoming release to save TD-11/15 e-drum users some headaches about Roland’s weird implemention
I can’t quite confirm that tweaking the transition zones isn’t working, but unfortunately I don’t have a VH11 here to test with. Best I have got is midi-data in the daw, where I limit the CC to 1-90. When I do that, if I move around the zones, I can indeed get a closed hihat sound.
It may not be exactly 90, due to the transition modelling built into the zones. You may want to try experimenting with the zone positions.
Hi Drew, thanks for looking on this again!
I just tried it myself also and if I use a virtual CC 04 knob of the daw to control the variable hihat control the hihat closes indeed fully with the closed zone around 90 while tipping it via the piano keys. If I use the midi of the TD-15 (VH-11) I still hear the 1/4 open sound when the pedal is fully closed. The midi log for closing the pedal fully and tipping for four times looks like this:
So with every tip CC 04 sends the value 90 which should work in theory?!
I moved the transition zones way up to 64 for the closed zone…
Maybe the problem lies in sending a CC 04 signal with every hit. That is the only difference I see between playing via keyboard or via the drum kit…
Thanks for all your time on this.
I don’t know if this helps. I have a TD-27 that uses VH10 hats. In the module there’s the option to have midi range 0-90 (default) or 0-127. Maybe worth checking if the TD 11 module has the same option?
Hi Drew,
attached is the midi file with first closing the CC4 pedal and then playing some hihat tips fully closed… BFD_CC4_90.mid.zip (427 Bytes)
I use the “BFD 60s Pop” preset unchanged with the “Bosphorus Hihat Stick” loaded into the Hihat…
@Mick Thanks for the tip. I read in another e-drum forum that the TD11/15 kits have this strange and known behaviour. Roland did not try to change anything about that and I don’t know if newer kits behave better. I have no midi or pad option regarding the pedal midi range…
Hi!
I use Roland TD-1 DMK, i was really surprised that hihat sending CC 4 0-90 is fine…
I was going to replace the sensor)
So i have mapped variable zone slider to a preferable attitude, but…
I have noticed the problem:
The program is not saving/loading that setting. I have tried all variants to save and load key map/preset/kit and every time that adjustment (variable zone slider) returns to some default value… any help?
Ableton scaler works fine - thanx fopr help! But it would be much better to be able to have an option to save key map containing hihat variable zone sliders inside.
Ok, I was able to fix the hi-hat not closing issue by adjusting the 8 points of the opening & closing hi-hat transition screen in the Key Map section. On the hi-hat transition screen turn on the Variable Hi-Hat setting first then hold pedal down & hit the hi-hat pad to activate the 8 points. Now that they are active, then set the last zone of the closed hi-hat to 85 instead of 127 and basically push or adjust all 8 points upward. Doing this I was able to get both Variable & Non Variable hi-hats closing properly! Make sure closed hi-hat when struck with stick lights up on the transition screen. This worked for me. However now I must open a new ticket because BFD 3.4 is not saving the changes I make in the hi-hat transition screen? It turns out I can save the session but I have to realize when I look at the Hi-Hat transition screen the settings are at default again? It actually is looking like it just does not save the custom hi-hat articulation settings properly after further use. I hope this can be fixed? Saving as keymap does not work either. You can reload the keymap and find the settings were not saved! Still waiting for this to be resolved or is there a earlier version that works? If anything the session should also save the current key-map settings. I hope this is resolved soon?
Well, I wish mine was working. I tried saving the keymap but when reloading the hi-hat zones the lowest one resets to 99 instead of 83 where I set it? Let me know why my BFD 3.4.4 is not working by loading the keymap and why this info does not save in the session, not loaded with session either?
